Not so Russian: writer Anton Sanchenko on the Ukrainian foundation of the empire

In an interview with Intent, writer Anton Sanchenko explains why the history of the Russian Empire is much less "Russian" than it seems. From sailors, scientists, doctors, and ministers, Ukrainians shaped its institutions, but remained "anecdotal characters" in it. In the conversation, we discuss nepotism as a strategy for survival in the imperial system, the collapse of the e-book market due to piracy, and the popularity of fantasy during the war as an escape from reality. And also why artificial intelligence texts are easy to recognize as boring. And a bit about Odesa, a city with its own character.

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Anton Sanchenko (born July 29, 1966, Kherson) is a Ukrainian writer, translator, and founder of the first Ukrainian electronic publishing house, Elektrokniga. In 1986 he graduated from the Kherson Maritime School. He worked as a radio station manager in Kerch, Kherson, Odesa, Istanbul, and Piraeus. In 2005, Sanchenko graduated from the Faculty of Philology at Taras Shevchenko National University of Kyiv. His first collection of short stories, "Calling Channel," was published in 2003. In 2010, he published a book of short stories called "Bursa Sketches," one of the first e-books in Ukrainian literature. In 2011, it was shortlisted for the BBC Book of the Year 2011. Among the author's other books: "Barcaroli" (2008), "Wedding with Europe" (2008), "The Graphomaniac's Self-Teacher" (2012), "Levantine Vacations" (2014), "George's Land" (2016), "Yuriy Lysyansky: Around the World on the Sloop Neva (1803-1806)" (2019), "Cruz and Fox. The Eve" (2020), "On the Black Sea Wave: The 33rd Century of the Dug Sea" (2024).

Anton Sanchenko. SCREEN SHOT: Intent's YouTube

Mr. Sanchenko, through the relaxed intellectual and sarcastic form in your books Cruz and Fox and Beauties Choose Lysiansky, you manage to gently decolonize. You show how the first Russian round-the-world expedition was led by our Ukrainian scientist and sailor from Nizhyn, Yuriy Lysiansky, and the German Krusenstern. What do you think of the decolonization that our officials are doing in their offices?

I first heard this word in Odesa. I used to call it something else for myself. But returning Ukrainian heroes to their homeland, of whom there are many around the world, is one of the top priorities. Because sometimes you wonder who really developed, say, medicine in the Russian Empire: two-thirds of doctors in the eighteenth century were Ukrainians.

It's the same with sailors: 80% of the teachers of the Naval Cadet Corps in Lysiansky's time were graduates of the Kyiv-Mohyla Academy. When you look at it from another angle, you see the enormous and often decisive contribution of Ukrainians.

For example, Platon Gamaleya, a teacher and company commander of the Naval Cadet Corps, wrote all Russian textbooks on maritime affairs: navigation, shipbuilding theory, meteorology, astronomy. One man. The Russians called him "the naval Lomonosov."

Why did imperial historiography systematically erase the Ukrainian origin of figures like Lysiansky, and did he have a chance to avoid this appropriation during his lifetime?

Historiography erased it, while memoirs, on the contrary, emphasized it. People who came from Ukraine were constantly noted for their accent, their "Little Russian style." Lysiansky 's book was rejected six times, because they did not want to publish it.

Ukrainians were often turned into joke characters. For example, Chancellor Bezborodko, an educated man who spoke four languages and negotiated with European monarchs, was criticized for his "Little Russian accent."

Is it possible to assume that without Lysiansky's organizational and financial talent, the first Russian circumnavigation of the globe would not have taken place?

It is possible, and not only without Lysiansky. There was also a man from Nizhyn, Yevstratiy Delarov, a Greek merchant. It was he who proposed the idea of sailing to Alaska to deliver goods and export furs. Without Chancellor Bezborodko, who pushed through the expedition with documents, nothing would have happened either. So the origin of this expedition is largely Ukrainian and Greek.

How do you balance historical accuracy with artistic freedom?

The good thing about being a fiction writer is that where a historian stops due to lack of evidence, you can move on.

For example, there is a record that the godfather of Lysiansky's sister, Anna, was "Prince Oleksandr." A historian cannot prove that it was Bezborodko. A fiction writer can assume it.

And then this logic is confirmed by his behavior: Bezborodko helped the Lysiansky family. Such eighteenth-century nepotism is our way of surviving in a hostile imperial world. And when they start fighting this in our Verkhovna Rada, I laugh, because it is impossible to win.

How do you feel about the idea that Yurii Lysianskyi, a descendant of the Nizhyn Cossacks, was a Russian colonizer?

He really fought with the Indians - this is a fact. But he also acted as an auditor of what Russians were doing in America.

His writings do not coincide with the official history. For example, he writes about the exploitation of the Aleut. The men were constantly at work, and their families were left without a livelihood. Lysiansky wrote that there was nothing to feed women and children because all the men were hunting. There is an episode where he shares his supplies with women.

So the picture is more complicated: he is both a participant in the system and its critic. In a word, we need to go to Alaska and find out on the spot whether Lysiansky is a colonizer or vice versa. But this is the task of the next book.

Who do you write your books for?

For people who are interested in sea adventures and history. Often these are adult readers, sometimes former sailors. Unfortunately, not young people. They are interested in something else now.

An ideal reader is a person who wanted to become a sailor but couldn't, and now lives this dream through books.

Anton Sanchenko at a meeting with readers. PHOTO: Natalia Dovbysh

What's wrong with e-books and why is the fashion for paper books coming back?

The fashion is back for one simple reason: all e-books are read on a layer. And it takes money to even translate a book (not to mention write it, but simply scan it and make a digital copy). Those who read e-books don't like to pay.

I had a publishing house called Elektrokniga, and I tried all kinds of methods. The book was freely distributed, and after reading it, you could pay the author. Maybe every hundredth person paid. If it was every fiftieth, we could talk about something. I thought that this would change over time. But it didn't. When Chtivo was closed, I saw how many of us there really are - fans of freebies, fans of the double bass. Nothing can be done about it.

Therefore, the only method is not to make life easier for pirates: not to make electronic versions, but to release paper versions. Circulation has fallen. It was eight thousand, now it's a thousand, but it's still a circulation that pays for the book. You can work with this. That's why we're returning to paper.

What is your fee as a writer?

It's hard for me to say, because I've never been limited by royalties. I sold my books and earned more than I received from the publishing house. That is, I always stipulate in the agreement that I get a significant discount on the books, and I sell them myself. On average, I can get about two thousand dollars from a book.
I once proudly mentioned this figure to Kherson schoolchildren, and they instantly lost interest in the writing profession. They said they would become customs officers or smugglers.

What isyour opinion on the statements of blogger Ema Antoniuk?

Listen, we often get offended by the truth. The "Russian-speaking jaw" is a well-known meme from the time of the occupation of Crimea. Everyone uses it, no one is offended, but here they are offended and demanding an apology from her. Why? Did Antoniuk name something that does not exist in nature? This is a normal situation: people refuse to learn Ukrainian because it is difficult for them, they are not adapted. Scientifically, this is called the articulation base, and it really differs from one nation to another. I'm not an expert to explain exactly what the difference is, but yes: Ukrainian phonetics is not easy to learn.

Anton Sanchenko. PHOTO: Natalia Dovbysh

What to read during the war?

People choose fantasy and romantic literature as a way to escape into another world. I don't advise it and I don't read it, but I see this trend.

What does contemporary Ukrainian literature lack?

Nothing. It is developing rapidly. A few decades ago there were a few hundred books, now there are tens of thousands of titles. I have no reason to complain.

It's clear that there is room for development, but we work for society: what society demands, literature offers.

How do you assess the impact of artificial intelligence on literature?

I don't use artificial intelligence, so I don't know. Sometimes I read posts by people who use it. When I get bored in the middle of a text, I realize that it was written by AI.

Kokotyukha has written more than a hundred books without any artificial intelligence. That is, how automated his writing procedure is, how hard he works. Nowadays, this would not surprise anyone, but he did it thirty years before the advent of AI. Yes, there is Dumas, also a prolific author, but he was written by a factory.

I write by myself. It's faster for me to write myself than to explain what I want and then correct the AI's delusions when it makes up some facts.

You recently moved from Kyiv to Odesa. Give us a positive and negative impression.

Positive - there are few scooter riders, and they are careful. The negative is the lack of attention to green areas. After Kyiv, it is very noticeable: parks are neglected, there is a lack of systematic care.

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