"The Moscow Patriarchate is also a public organization," Serhiy Hutsalyuk

Since 1991, Ukraine has gone through many political events and changes to which society has responded. What were the events in Odesa that worried the citizens and prompted them to take to the streets? We talked about this with Serhiy Hutsaliuk, an Odesa historian, activist, and soldier. Watch the full and read the shortened version of the interview on Intent about heritage, attacks, pro-Russian organizations and the thirst for better.

We will talk about the period of Odesa when you were a student, for example. We talk a lot about what it was like in Odesa, but there are people who didn't know this period, and we just absorb this information, so I want you to tell us what it was like in Odesa.

I can tell you my view of all the events, but I won't be able to be very objective, because there were so many events at that time. Since the late 80s, somehow life itself brought me into public and political life. And then a process began, one of those before the collapse of the Soviet Union, of some kind of Ukrainian self-identification. At that time, the People's Movement emerged in Ukraine, in Odesa in particular. Mr. Tsymbaliuk was its leader-a legendary figure. And there were many more such interesting people, unfortunately, many of them died because they were already at a respectable age. Then the Cossack movement emerged. Later, the guys and I organized our more effective structure and called it the Black Sea Haidamak Association. It was a parallel to the Haidamak division of 1917-1918 that existed in Odesa during our liberation struggle. Why did we do this? To defend national interests in Odesa. It was an interesting situation with the restoration of independence. In Odesa, I remember clearly how it was: in the very early 1990s, they tried to promote this whole topic of Novorossiya. There was a newspaper called the Novorossiysk Telegraph. And they said that Odesa is not Ukraine, that the south of Ukraine is not Ukraine, it is Novorossiya. But I must say that when Kravchuk came to power, our services very quickly stopped all this talk. And we, on the part of our civic activists, also opposed this, but, thank God, the services worked. This is in contrast to the events after the Orange Revolution, when there was a certain imperial renaissance in Odesa, which ended in the hot events of 2014.

You mentioned the period of restoration of independence. Could you tell us what it was like for your family, for example? People often mention that Swan Lake was shown on TV and no one understood what was happening. Can you share your own memories or thoughts about that period?

My grandmother was a teacher. Since childhood, I have always read books and heard stories because she survived the Second World War, the Holodomor, and repressions. She was born in 1918 in Odesa, where she is buried. Although she did not live most of her life in Odesa, they left the city after 1923. For me, in principle, Odesa has never been something separate from Ukraine.

So for me it was very organic that Ukraine was gaining independence. At that time, I was working as an electrician at the plant. We had a huge team when it all happened. There was one of the very oldest people there, Mykhailo was his name, he wore a mustache, a Cossack herring. I immediately became friends with him, and he was a member of the People's Movement, and he introduced me to this environment. And then all our party functionaries were saying that we should sit quietly, and he stood up and criticized it. I sat there, I was still a kid, I was curious. I said, "Mr. Mykhailovych, what are we going to do? There will be rallies, we have to go there. And so I saw all the rallies.

Photo: ArmyInform

Activists should be concerned about certain problems. These are not always all the problems that exist in the city or the world. What problems did you start with?

First of all, the issue of our self-identification. Back in the 90s, all separatist sentiments in Odesa were virtually destroyed. They remained only in certain conversations. But at the same time, a lot of TV channels appeared in Odesa, which constantly broadcast the idea that Ukraine is not for long; Ukraine is just some misunderstanding; and Odesa, if not Russia, is definitely not Ukraine, something separate. I was very, very uninterested in this. That's why I wrote my thesis about the history of the Ukrainian Cossacks, Khadjibey, and Odesa. I was surprised why all this is silenced, erased, and only one period is taken. Before that, grass didn't grow here and everything else. And there are a lot of documents, and writers wrote about it back in the 60s.

Before 2014, do you remember any high-profile problems that forced Odessans to come out and rally, for example?

When the issue of the separateness of southern Ukraine and Odesa began to be promoted in Odesa, our struggle began very strongly. I made a lot of enemies, but if you don't have enemies, then nothing in this life is worth anything. The peak for us was the confrontation between the Orange Revolution and 2014. This was, of course, the installation of monuments to Catherine, unfortunately. At that time, I was horrified by the number of people in the local authorities who simply did not understand all these points. That these monuments are like markers. The Russian Empire is the newest, it actually marked the territory before the Great War. And I, as a historian, already realized at that time that this war would take place in some form. It was already moving in a mental, ideological direction. Then, in Odesa, various pro-Russian organizations began to appear like mushrooms after the rain. These were political parties and public organizations. The largest of them, of course, was the Moscow Patriarchate. Because it is also a public organization. And its role in all these processes is very huge. It still has to be evaluated historically. But for quite some time now it has had a huge influence. Agafangel's figure is here because, to his credit, he constructed all this very skillfully. I understand that he was probably helped by the Russian special services to do this. This is my personal opinion, because there was no other way. Then in the 90s, when people no longer believed what the communist state was telling them, they were able to deceive people into coming over to their side, and people started giving money to the church and everything else. There was such a flourishing. But inside, this imperialism was sitting there, because this church is Moscow, it was never separated from imperial Russia or the Soviet Union.

Photo: Natalia Dovbysh, Intent

Then the foundations, there were many different Russian foundations here. One of the main ones was the Rossotrudnichestvo Foundation. They actually financed the installation of the monument to Catherine through a member of the city council, Tarpan. By the way, he is now hiding somewhere abroad. In addition, this foundation has opened its offices even in our primary schools. In particular, in our Technikov University, during the reign of Mr. Koval - now the secretary of the city council - and in Ushynsky University. Back in the days of the previous rector. I understand that this was an instruction directly from the Minister of Education, because Tabachnyk was then, and they took over this whole thing very quickly. And what did they offer there? Russian culture, Russian history, and a view of us. There were big protests at the time. That was the first time I met Yaroslava Vitko and Viktoria Sibir during the protests against these events. As for her balcony, "Glory to Ukraine" is a total joke. I believe that the entire Russian world crashed against that balcony in Odesa.

Марія Литянська